London Internet Church

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Online Krish on September 22, 2008 at 12:31pm

Definitely! I'm looking forward to seeing many people meeting online and supporting and encouraging each other.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Sargeant on September 22, 2008 at 1:09pm

Peter, this is certainly an improvement on the old site, and a great way to share. What did you think of the Web and Blog Awards on Friday night?

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Permalink Reply by Henk Dijkgraaf on January 2, 2009 at 11:05am

The lay-out of the site is beautiful enough but judging from the number of members and the paucity of discussions, something is still lacking. Perhaps the webmaster could initiate discussions by posing some challenging questions?

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Permalink Reply by Lynda Keen on April 12, 2009 at 3:30pm

Perhaps some of us members could initiate discussions?
Pity to leave all the work to the webmaster when we've got a whole community of people here with brains and interesting ideas in them just waiting for an airing. We've all joined in this exciting new way of being a church and all must have something to contribute to our communal discussions.
I'm about to practise what I preach by initiating some new topics and hope others will do likewise.

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Permalink Reply by Peter Delaney on January 2, 2009 at 11:48am

That is a very good idea, I will begin the New Year with a question.

"Does the church have any serious answers to the economic debate which confronts us all. I know that you can direct people to texts in the New Terstament which refer to Jesus Christ's teaching on money, and "Kingdom" questions, but what do contemporary Christians have to say to today's problems."

Peter Delaney

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Permalink Reply by Alan Taylor on April 8, 2009 at 10:18am

Peter, it seems to me that the site needs some action! Ideally a social media strategy so that traffic can start to build on the site. Don't know what resources you have for this, or if you have had any strategic discussions, but I would be more than willing to help! Not sure whether you remember meeting me - I used to be PCC Secretary at St Giles Cripplegate, and was there for your last visitation.

With regard to your question, I would say that our faith has profoundly serious answers to the economic (and social) debate which confronts us all. I am not sure whether the church, per se, is willing to embrace those answers as it seems to be wedded, if not welded, to traditional patriarchal top-down power structures.

For me, then, there is a connection between the faltering progress of work such as this, and your question. Society is changing rapidly at the moment and that change is both fostered by, and in turn stimulating self-organization and networked community solutions. Is the church ready to embrace such changes, which I would argue are manifestations of Christ's teachings?

There's lots more to say on this matter, but I'll post this as a taster for now!

All the best

Alan

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Permalink Reply by Alan Taylor on April 9, 2009 at 5:14pm

... and today I found this. http://www.dream.uk.net/index.php/guerrilla-worship.html

there's a lot we can say ...

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Permalink Reply by Peter Delaney on April 9, 2009 at 7:48pm

Alan I have just tried to understand the site you have led us to.

Some of the U Tube images filmed at a shopping centre are interesting but it takes too long to enter into the content to sit watching. Thety are intestiung documentary observation on social behabiuor but I think my generation needs content sooner, how did you feel about those partticular images?

Thank you for introducing me to the ideas, I guess once my own liturgical three days of Easter are over I will be able to focus better on the suggestions, but a good idea and some really exciting young concepts for use.

Thank you, keep the contact going.

PAD

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Permalink Reply by Alan Taylor on April 10, 2009 at 8:26am

thanks Peter,

will connect again next week. It was great to join you at St Stephen's yesterday.
Off to Good Friday liturgy shortly.

peace be with you

Alan

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Permalink Reply by Lynda Keen on April 12, 2009 at 4:15pm

I don't think the church has any serious answers or it would have come up with them move volubly by now and helped to solve the economic crisis confronting us. The church is often too far out of touch with reality to be an effective force for good, as was demonstrated by the Archbishop of Canterbury's Shari'a Law speech, which struck terror into the hearts of people like me who have lived in countries where Shari'a Family Law operates and must have struck glee into the hearts of people like Osama bin Laden and the mad mullahs of Tehran and Whitechapel.
I think Jesus has some serious answers and we should be shouting these from the rooftops loud and clear.
Having seen the end of the communist economic system, it would be a good thing if we now saw the end of the capitalist economic system. Because then we might just be able to set up a more equitable economic system.
A system designed to ensure that everyone shares in the world's wealth, instead of a system where a few people have more money than they would ever know what to do with while millions of people die of hunger or suffer in dire poverty. A co-operative system instead of a competitive one. A system based on Jesus' teaching, in fact.
What stands in the way of progress is the sheer, blatant greed of governments and businessmen. Why have governments worldwide bailed out failing businesses, whose failure is due only to shortsighted, short-term greed? Perhaps because birds of a feather stick together? How many of our politicians show the same greed as we read every day about their illegitimate expenses claims, free gifts in return for favours and underhand donations to their parties. So many of the people running the world are like the rich young man who wanted to follow Jesus but wouldn't do the one thing needful, give away his money.
Under such people, the rich will always get richer and the poor poorer, even under governments that claim to be socialist and/or democratic.
If the church doesn't have serious answers to the economic debate, is hope lost?
No. I think there are at least three forces for good in operation.
Firstly, I hope and pray that Barack Obama is a serious Christian who will apply moral tenets in the way he manages the economic crisis. He thinks things are improving in America. If he's right, there's hope for the rest of the world, given that we're all part of the American Empire.
Secondly, it's often forgotten that Jesus is considered a prophet by Muslims, too, and there is an outstanding Muslim who is blazing a trail of economic light worldwide. Muhammad Yunus' Grameen Bank, with its micro-credit system, inspires hope that a financial corporation run on co-operation not competiton, on helping the poor to become richer not on greedy moneygrabbing, does actually work. Here in East London, the Quakers run a Grameen-style micro-credit organisation and often church influence begins with non-conformist churches rather than the established church. So one church has taken up a serious answer and is doing something very practical to improve the economic situation.
If after this crisis, the greedy fat cats change their ways and follow Mr Yunus' precepts, there's even some hope for the bankers. If after this crisis, the church as a whole can get back in touch with real life,roll its sleeves up and follow the Quakers' example, there's even some hope for the church.
Thirdly, the Make Poverty History movement has achieved one economic miracle already and may go on to achieve more. In the 1980s, I taught Economics. It was obvious then that the money flow was from the poor countries to the rich ones. The interest on aid repayments was crippling. Aid was usually tied so that money was only lent if the poor countries bought useless goods from the rich countries. It was obvious then that aid would never help any Third World country to develop and that to stimulate international trade was the only way to get a workable world economy. That would mean cancelling all Third World debt. An unthinkable idea at the time, thanks to the greed of the IMF and World Bank. But now it's been implemented thanks to grass roots pressure from Make Poverty History.
I hope this contributes something to the discussion.

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Permalink Reply by Peter Delaney on April 13, 2009 at 12:27pm

My dear Lynda

Thank you for this serious contribution to the debate, it would now be good to see if other members agree with your views.

I think that the church does make a contribution and I am about to add the Bishop of London's contribution on the subject of financial melt down from the Diocese of London' s web site.

No one it seems to me makes contributions to the poorer nations unless politically there is some gain from the gift, consequently all of the overseas aid packages are linked to political alliances.

On the other hand the Diocese of London's recent Lent Appeal for ALMA the linked dioceses of Mozambique and Angola are free gifts untied to any political idealogy and though made through the Christian church are donated for schools projects and other support purposes.

What you say about cancelling the tryhird world debt is so important and now takes on a more biting scenario. Thankj you Lunda for yoiur cintribution lets hear others on the subject.

Peter Delaney

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Permalink Reply by Peter Delaney on April 9, 2009 at 7:43pm

Alan

We are a community growing and treadibing carefully. I agree it would be good to have a more interactive conversation but as we progress so we will hope to learn.

We are a work in progress but becauise we are also based at a real church on a day to day basis your prayers are translated into our prayers, your candles are lit as real candles; today Maundy Thursday all the prayers offered and all the candles identifiably lit were a part of the great Communion liturgy at the heart of the City of London.

Our next serious step is to smarten up the site, develop the interaction and make new frioends, so thank you for ytiour care and suggestions lets work tiogether for impriovement and growth we should share how we might inprove, so lets here it.

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